Sir John DE GREY 2nd Baron of Wilton ²³⁶⁷

   FamilySearch ID: <a HREF="https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/9SJW-NCY">9SJW-NCY</a>

  General Notes:

LifeSketch
New Information:

• Background Information: Wife of John de Grey.
royalancestry AT msn.com (Douglas Richardson) wrote in message news:<5cf47a19.0201151600.4392e754 AT posting.google.com>...
Dear Newsgroup ~

In the wake of the new discovery of Theobald de Verdun's wife, Margery de Bohun, new attention has been turned to the baronial families of Verdun and Bohun. As indicated by Complete Peerage, Theobald de Verdun's step-mother, Eleanor, 2nd wife of John de Verdun, is thought to have been a Bohun, she having sealed with those arms as reported by Complete Peerage sub Verdun. Chris Philips reported his findings on this matter in a post today.

As it turns out, Eleanor, 2nd wife of John de Verdun, does in fact appear to have been a Bohun. My research indicates that Eleanor evidently had as her maritagium the manor of Debden, Essex (a Bohun manor), which property she in turn conveyed as a widow in 1275/6 to John de Grey, of Wilton, co. Hereford, and his wife, Maud. The fine conveying this property is found in Essex Feet of Fines, vol. 2, pg. 13. At his death years later, John de Grey is stated to have held the manor of Debden of Eleanor de Verdun by the service of a rose, the standard service for property granted in marriage in this period (see Cal. IPM, vol. 6, pg. 311). As such, it seems rather clear that John de Grey's wife, Maud, was the daughter of John de Verdun, by his 2nd wife, Eleanor de Bohun.

We can be reasonably certain that Maud de Grey was Eleanor de Verdun's daughter, as Eleanor being a Bohun surely had the manor of Debden in marriage, and in turn passed it along to her daughter, Maud. In this time period, a woman's maritagium almost always fell to her descendants, unless she happened to be childless, when she sometimes conveyed it away to strangers. In Eleanor's case, we know that she had several other male children, so the odds that she would convey her maritagium to the Grey family without there being a kinship is virtually slim to none. Also, it appears that John de Grey and his wife, Maud, were small children at the time of Eleanor de Verdun's fine. Complete Peerage indicates that John de Grey was born about 1268 (he being aged 40 at his father's death in 1308). Eleanor de Verdun's other known child, Humphrey, was born in 1267. It would be odd for Eleanor to convey her property to children, unless of course one of the parties was her own child.

Following John de Grey's death, the manor of Debden, Essex was in turn held by John and Maud de Grey's son and heir, Henry de Grey, Lord Grey, of Wilton (see Cal. IPM, vol. 8, pg. 261), as well as by a later Henry Grey, Lord Grey, of Wilton (see Cal. IPM, vol. 17, pg. 253). At the later Henry de Grey's death, he is stated to hold the manor of "Weldebernys" in Debden of the Countess of Hereford (a Bohun descendant). The passage of this manor down to John de Grey's son, Henry, and thence to his heirs gives evidence that Henry was in fact the son of John de Grey's wife, Maud de Verdun.

These new discoveries causes a ripple of corrections for Complete Peerage as well as for the Plantagenet Ancestry manuscript. For starters, it now appears that John de Grey had but one wife, Maud de Verdun, not two as claimed by Complete Peerage. Also, it appears Maud de Verdun was the mother of all of John de Grey's children, presumably including Iseult Saint Pierre, living 1343, whose existence and identity I mentioned in a post this past week.

As for the identity of parentage of Eleanor de Bohun, Complete Peerage indicates that she married before 1267 to John de Verdun, and that they had a son, Humphrey de Verdun, born in 1267. If we assume that Eleanor was around 20 at the time of marriage, say 1265, the chronology would place Eleanor, born say 1245, as a hitherto unknown daughter of Humphrey de Bohun, Earl of Hereford (died 1275), by his 2nd wife, Maud de Avenbury. The date of the marriage of Earl Humphrey and Maud de Avenbury is not known, but presumably it was soon after the death of his 1st wife, Maud of Eu, which took place in 1241. Earl Humphrey and Maud are known to have had children, but no modern descendants have been found for this couple.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
http://cybergata.com/roots/8818.htm
https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/cku2jn6rb0A:
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SOURCES CONFLICT on second wife

John Grey, 2nd Baron Grey de Wilton (died 28 October 1323) was the son of Reginald de Grey, 1st Baron Grey de Wilton and his wife Maud daughter and heir of William, Baron FitzHugh.
His first office was as vice-justice of Chester from 1296 to 1297.
He participated in the siege and capture of Caerlaverock Castle in July 1300. During the siege the English heralds composed a roll of arms, the Roll of Caerlaverock, in the form of verses of poetry, each describing the feats of valour of each noble and knight present, with a blazon of his armorials. Grey's arms are recorded as BARREE silver at the Asur entaillie o bende red engreellie.

He was summoned to Parliament from 1309 to 1322. His first parliamentary appointment was that of Lord Ordainer in 1310, and was followed by an appointment as Justice of North Wales in c.1316 and Governor of Caernarfon Castle.[3] He was relieved of his constabulatory responsibilities the following year and called to raise troops in response to the insurrection led by Llywelyn Bren.
He served as Conservator of the peace for Bedfordshire in 1320.
In 1322, he was commanded to raise troops in Wales and join the royal muster at Coventry. He died the following year.

He married

1. Anne sister of William Ferrers, 1st Baron Ferrers of Groby, by whom he had a son Henry Grey, 3rd Baron Grey de Wilton.

2. Maud daughter of Ralph Bassett, Baron Bassett, by whom he had a son Roger, who was summoned to Parliament in 1324.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Grey,_2nd_Baron_Grey_de_Wilton

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John de Grey, 2nd Lord Grey (of Wilton) was born circa 1268.
He was the son of Sir Reynold de Grey, 1st Lord Grey (of Wilton) and Maud de Longchamp [= Maud FitzHugh above].
He married, firstly, Anne de Ferrers, daughter of William de Ferrers and Joan le Despencer.
He married, secondly, Matilda de Verdun, daughter of John de Verdun and Eleanor Bohun.
He died on 28 October 1323.
He succeeded to the title of 2nd Lord Grey, of Wilton [E., 1295] on 8 January 1308/9.
In 1311 he had granted Ruthin Castle to himself for life then to his younger son, Roger.
He fought in the Battle of Bannockburn in 1314.
He held the office of Justiciar of North Wales in February 1314/15.
He held the office of Governor of Caernarvon Castle.

Children of John de Grey, 2nd Lord Grey (of Wilton) and Matilda de Verdun
1. Sir Roger de Grey, 1st Lord Grey (of Ruthin) d. 6 Mar 1352/53
2. Joan de Grey d. b 5 Apr 1353
3. Henry de Grey, 3rd Lord Grey (of Wilton) b. 28 Oct 1281, d. 10 Dec 1342

http://www.thepeerage.com/p3817.htm#i38161

BIRTH: Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, Kimball G. Everingham, ed., 5 vols. (Salt Lake City: by the author, 2013), Wilton, 5:368.
MAR: Ibid.
DEATH: Ibid., 5:369.
OCC/TITLES: Knight, 2d Lord Grey of Wilton, Justicar of North Wales and Keeper of the King's castles and lands in those parts. He was actively employed in the Scottish wars of Edward II. He fought in the Battle of Bannockburn, 24 June 1314. John accompanied the king to France in 1320 and to Scotland in 1322.

John married Maud DE VERDUN, daughter of John DE VERDUN and Eleanor DE BOHUN. (Maud DE VERDUN was born in 1258 in Drayton Bassett, , Staffordshire, England,²³⁶⁷ died on 23 October 1323 in Wilton, Herefordshire, Herefordshire, England ²³⁶⁷ and was buried in Drayton, , Leicestershire, England ²³⁶⁷.)